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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION
The Obsidian Front
621
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Posted - 2015.03.02 13:02:33 -
[1] - Quote
This fixes nothing and only compounds the problem of "moar dudes = win".
Or the counter to an Ishtar fleet is still Ishtar +1 |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION
The Obsidian Front
622
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 09:43:59 -
[2] - Quote
As has been said by a few others:
I feel without any kind of EWAR to attack a drone ship with we will always have the Sentry Drone problem.
We need an EWAR type that can reduce a ships drone control range or jam their connection to the drones. This sounds like it could even be the secondary EWAR for Caldari. It would fit in.
If not this kind of option then.....
Drop the sentry drone bonus from the Ishtar and the VNI and concentrate on making heavy drones very useful to them.
Make the heavy drones super fast and track very well by dropping the sentry drone tracking and optimal bonus for a secondary drone velocity and tracking bonus. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION
The Obsidian Front
622
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 11:03:20 -
[3] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:afkalt wrote:Xequecal wrote:Rails can get double optimal bonuses, why not lasers? Because LOLScorch, unfortunately. Ed: Cerbs with rainbow damage might manage it, but they dont have full rainbow. I fail to see what 36km Scorch would break that 30km Scorch already doesn't break.
It breaks any laser ship without a range bonus trying to use beams (a long range weapon) to counter it. It would essentially hamstring any medium range ship. Which they already almost do.
Range bonuses are a very powerful bonus. Double range bonuses to the same attribute are bonkers OP.
Giving split range bonuses isn't so bad though. For example: The Muninn would probably do great with a 10% bonus to projectile optimal and falloff (and an extra gun slot) |
Spugg Galdon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
622
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Posted - 2015.03.04 11:00:51 -
[4] - Quote
What's the actual bottom line to this though?
If my math is correct I see a simple shield kite fit Ishtar (with Bouncer II's) go from 620 dps @ approx 100km (drone control range) drop to 515 dps at the same range.
I still feel this is simply too much.
No other HAC can perform like this. It's battleship offensive performance with cruiser application and HAC mobility (warp speed, MWD sig reduction and speed).
Battleships still struggle on grid to go toe to toe with this and they have all of their other drawbacks on top. |
Spugg Galdon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
624
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Posted - 2015.03.05 15:25:55 -
[5] - Quote
Would it be terrible if the Ishtar and the Eos swapped bonuses?
I mean, look at the two. The Eos would be great (but not OP due to lack of mids) and the Ishtar would receive the nerf it deserves.
Ishtar:
Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage
7.5% bonus to hybrid turret tracking speed
HAC skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Heavy drone tracking
7.5% bonus to Heavy drone max velocity
Eos:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage
7.5% bonus to armour repairer amount
Command ship skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Drone optimal range and Tracking
5km bonus to drone control range
Would this be terrible or would it not simply fix the Ishtar problem but give all the PvE'rs and others the Ishtar capability in a heavier, slower package that favours armour over speed?
The VNI can also stay as is as it's not as bonkers as the Ishtar and this would also differentiate it fully from the Ishtar instead of just being a crappy, baby Ishtar |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
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Posted - 2015.03.12 13:18:37 -
[6] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Aplysia Vejun wrote:Not really, no. It would make another brawler of the ishtar. One with a bad hull for it ( compared with the deimos). Slow, not enough CPU and power to even fill all slots. AND it kills its role as a drone only ship. ishtar as a brawler is just a bad idea, the gila would trump it every time comfortably.
This is nonsensical rubbish. The Ishtar is actually a good brawler.
It can be dual rep fit
It can be 1600mm plate fit
It can be shield gank fit
Even if it traded it's bonuses with the Eos it wouldn't lose it's ability to field 5 damgage bonused sentries. It would simply lose the projection and application. This is what the Ishtar needs. It needs to get it's legs cut out from under it but give it some arms to punch with
Currently, I turn to the Ishtar for just about everything except hacking and mining. It's so good at everything it's bonkers |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
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Posted - 2015.03.12 16:51:22 -
[7] - Quote
The Gila and Ishtar would be more or less on the same level. The Gila wouldn't be supreme. They would just be different. The Ishtar would actually probably still be better as it can field sentries and the Gila can't |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 08:01:34 -
[8] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:This was a suggestion in another thread that I liked.
Make heavy drones 20m3 and 20 bandwidth
Reduce Ishtar and Vexor Navy Issue bandwidth to 100
This removes the ability of cruiser-sized drone boats to use 5 sentries, and also gives other boats with 100 bandwidth the ability to fly 5 heavies - like the Myrmidon which is IMO a good thing. There's no reason for a smaller more agile ship like the Vexor Navy Issue to have a larger bandwidth than a battlecruiser. Minmatar ships that have odd drone bandwidth like the Scythe (45) would be able to use an extra heavy drone, but I'm not convinced that would be such a bad thing. It seems everyone hates the sentries more than the heavies, so keeping 5 sentries a battlecruiser or larger thing might be a good idea.
This is essentially what they're doing by nerfing the damage bonus. It doesn't remove the fundamental problem with the Ishtar which is a combination of speed, tank, Ewar immunity, projection and application with superb damage. All that the nerf achieves is a reduction from superb damage to good damage. Fleets will simply just bring moar Ishtars to compensate.
The Ishtar needs to be redesigned. The suggestion that I made to swap it's role with the Eos makes more sense to me as the Eos doesn't have the mids to shield tank it and it doesn't have the mobility. It does have an MJD though, which would actually work with it. It gives the projection and application of the Ishtar while removing the mobility and welding it to a hull that favor's armour |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
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Posted - 2015.03.13 16:00:22 -
[9] - Quote
Sentry drones are very broken and arty is way underpowered looking at that
@Aplysia Vejun - fitting an Ishtar with guns and without any CPU issues:
Quote:
[Ishtar, Shield Ganker]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Overdrive Injector System II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Ogre II x5
Quote:
[Ishtar, Dual Rep]
Damage Control II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized EM Membrane II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Ogre II x5
Quote:
[Ishtar, 1600mm Plate]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized EM Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
10MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Gecko x2
Ogre II x1
That last one is even dual prop. Those are just simple fits not even stepping out of the box either.
Also, drones and hybrid (other weapons) bonuses aren't a bad mix. It's one of the only mixed bonuses that actually work. The fact that you're comparing it to a Gila just shows your incompetence. The Gila is a mixed weapon boat too!!
For reference. Ships with weapon and drone bonuses:
Tristan
Algos
Vexor
Navy Dominix
Worm
Gila
Rattlesnake
probably missed some too |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 06:53:34 -
[10] - Quote
Aplysia Vejun wrote:Uh, what fail-fits. (the armor ones, cannot tell about the shield-one).
Not even the most crucial thing installed: t2 cloak
do you only roam in big groups??
edit: AND you need skills at V to use most of these fits
You're a moron. Stawman useless arguments.
Guessing you're a troll and I'm just feeding you.
Why is it necessary to fit a cloak? Are you some kind of *****? |
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Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
628
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Posted - 2015.03.18 18:06:31 -
[11] - Quote
Well this thread was a complete and pointless waste of time.
It was announced. It was asked... "What do you think?"
No replies or discussion from a Dev in this thread since it opened.
Scylla patch notes released and the original proposal is what's there.
Seriously? Why did you even bother to open this thread as a discussion. Should of just posted a notification thread and ******* well locked it. |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
631
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 06:02:49 -
[12] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Well this thread was a complete and pointless waste of time.
It was announced. It was asked... "What do you think?"
No replies or discussion from a Dev in this thread since it opened.
Scylla patch notes released and the original proposal is what's there.
Seriously? Why did you even bother to open this thread as a discussion. Should of just posted a notification thread and ******* well locked it. If the ishtar is so OP, then why don't these people simply fly the ishtar? It isn't that the ishtar is op. IT IS the players that cry are BAD. They will always be bad. You're not very mature now, are you?  There are other ships people have trained for, because, you know, they like the ships/types, and like having fun in game. But your point is also invalid, in that other countless people simply trained for the ishtard because it became the current meta doctrine. Train for an ishtard or get kicked from your alliance/corp.
And this nerf will change nothing other than people will bring more ishtars
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Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
631
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 09:29:16 -
[13] - Quote
For a giggle, prevent all Ishtars from undocking/being boarded for an entire month and lets see what happens.
A new meta would develop. Then, after a month, randomly allow Ishtars to undick again and see how quickly we return to Ishtars: Online. |
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